Posts by IT Support

so why have witnesses never heard of 'doctrine', yet apostates seem to promote it as the last word on witness standards of honesty, integrity and decency?

IT Support

Slim,

Do Jehovah's Witnesses now believe that all non-Witnesses will die at Armageddon? This is not clear. Since the goats change in 1995, Witnesses have promoted strongly the idea that Jesus will make the final judgement and that Witnesses cannot be sure who will be saved and who will not.

I've no doubt you are sincere in your attempts to defend WT. But in the early 1990s WT had a problem. Lots of 'worldly' people, especially in newly-'democratic' Eastern Europe, got very upset when JWs 'preached' they're all going to die unless they become a JW. Especially when these 'worldly' people were politicians responsible for registering new religions. So this hard-line doctrine started hurting them, both politically, and potentially, financially, in Russia, Greece, Georgia, Turkmenistan, Bulgaria, and not forgetting France (to save $28 million, virtually any doctrine becomes 'negotiable').

On the other hand, if WT stopped saying only JWs will survive Armageddon, then many JWs would wonder why should they bother being a JW. Which is a not unreasonable question.

So WT had to 'soften' their public position, while still keeping JWs fearful thrall that they may not survive themselves. Thus the changes you described.

55

Did you ever experience Holy Spirit?

by Ring Wielder in

i was a jw for 40 years.

although as an individual/cong/body of elders holy spirirt was prayed for, i cannot think of one moment when i thought..right now i have gods spirit acting upon me.

it was never described adequately for me to completely understand and i suspect that others felt the same, yet everyone talked as though they knew exactly how it worked.

IT Support

First, welcome, Ring Wielder! Glad you've joined us.

Good question. This lack of obvious holy spirit was something that worried me as a JW. Like you, I never ever felt I was being 'filled,' or 'guided' by holy spirit. I cannot recall a single elders meeting where I felt as a body we were being 'guided' by holy spirit--though I sat through far too many where there was the distinct opposite!

The way I rationalised it to myself was that as we were taught that the Bible is a product of holy spirit, so when we followed Biblical advice we were, in effect, following the leading of the holy spirit...

9

Invatation Snubs - Anybody?

by CaptK in

jw
friends

my mother who has been a jw for over 50 yrs, was sent an invatation to an elder's son high school graduation party.

however it was addressed to just her alone not including her husband who is not a witness but a nice guy just no jw.

the elder's son has yet to speak to my mother at the meetings even a hello or a casual conversation.

IT Support

She thinks this is just request for a $$$ gift

As a matter of interest, what sort of gift is usually considered appropriate, in particular to a good friend?

(This custom is rather alien to us Brits!)

14

Proposed Changes in UK Charity Law & JW's (BOE Letter)

by dh in

jw
friends

.

just thought i would share this, it's good for a laugh, we all know how much charitable work the jw's do, here it is in their own words.

.

IT Support

I don't know if this is helpful:

UK Charity Commission - new rules

16

Scan of old publications

by IT Support in

i'm preparing some information for my wife and kids, and would appreciate if someone was able to post a scan of these pages:

watchtower, august 1, 1926, p. 232

rutherford 'beating his slaves' just because they believed his crap:

IT Support

German XJW,

I can send you a scan of the 1926 WT page.

Thank you for your kind offer, but I now have it (see Osarsif's earlier post)--it was on Shaun's site, JW Files.

However, I'm still looking for a scan of the Yearbook page:

1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 146 WT's present-day 'spin' on the 1925 events:
Instead of its being considered a 'probability,' they read into it that it was a 'certainty,' and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection.

Thanks again.

14

Proposed Changes in UK Charity Law & JW's (BOE Letter)

by dh in

jw
friends

.

just thought i would share this, it's good for a laugh, we all know how much charitable work the jw's do, here it is in their own words.

.

IT Support

Could their charity status be challenged on the basis that there is no real "public benefit" in their activities?

16

Scan of old publications

by IT Support in

i'm preparing some information for my wife and kids, and would appreciate if someone was able to post a scan of these pages:

watchtower, august 1, 1926, p. 232

rutherford 'beating his slaves' just because they believed his crap:

IT Support

Fatfreek,

Oops! The link to the Franz audio snippet from my prior post may be incorrect.

Thanks for mentioning it!

When the link didn't work, I assumed there was a problem at my end and so went and found the clip on Quotes' site...

However, it's an excellent snippet--this is a transcription of the latter part of it (courtesy of Quotes):

We remember the mistake that was made with regard to Nineteen-Fourteen, predicting what it was going to signify. And we remember, uuuhh, the mistake that was made regarding the year Nineteen Hundred and Twenty-Five... And so all kinds of predictions were regarding that year, and, uh, well I recall at a table discussion, uh, after the year had passed, and the matter came up, uh, for, uh, talking about, discussing there at the Bethel table. Well, uh, Brother Rutherford, uh, made this statement with regard to Nineteen-hundred and Twenty-Five. He said, 'I made and Ass of myself.'

Thanks.

16

Scan of old publications

by IT Support in

i'm preparing some information for my wife and kids, and would appreciate if someone was able to post a scan of these pages:

watchtower, august 1, 1926, p. 232

rutherford 'beating his slaves' just because they believed his crap:

IT Support

Osarsif ,

Thank you, thank you.

Not only are the links you provided exactly what I was looking for, but more interestingly, being from two separate Watchtower articles 18 months apart, they also seem to give an interesting twist to my previous understanding of Rutherford's apparent statement:

Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so... The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason.

Putting the two sentences together like this seems, to me, anyway, to give the impression that Rutherford was blaming his followers for their 'inflated anticipations.'

However, the second sentence, from the February 1925 article, is made in the context of referring to past 'disappointments,' prior to the 1925 fiasco. (No doubt it was part of the 'softening-up' process of preparing the Bible Students for yet one more.) But it does not appear to be part of a verbal whiplashing given by the Judge to the doubting faithful.

Is this is a reasonable interpretation? If so, do you know if there are any such examples of Rutherford 'blaming the brothers'?

Thank you again.

49

Society once again teaches: Creative days were 7000 years each!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

"long time lurker, first time poster".

thought everybody would enjoy this snippet of an e-mail, from a friend of a friend who is in the current gilead class:.

"...brother liverance gave a fascinating talk on bible chronology.

IT Support

Might it be that the rise of the fundamentalist right in the US, combined with the increasing visibility of the Intelligent Design movement, is emboldening the GB to flip back to yet another old doctrinal 'flop'?